Rant n' Rave With John Nagle

What’s been the best show on the tour so far?

BF: Probably the one in Vancouver that we played.  It was really amazing, but we’ve had a lot of cool shows this tour.  I think we’re really surprised at the turnouts and the way the kids are coming out to see us.

This is your first headlining tour.  What’s it like to go from an opening band to a headliner?

BF: It’s a lot of freedom.  You feel better because you can play as long as you want and do things your way, which is cool.

You are the band’s primary lyricist.  What’s your songwriting method?

BF: I write down a lot of lines on pieces of paper or matchbooks or something when I think of them. I kinda gather up ideas.  Mainly I start with a title.  If I think the record’s going to be like ten songs long, I come up with about 40 titles, and kinda pick and choose whatever’s going on at the moment.  I’ll have the title and then start writing about whatever it is I’m writing about and then add the music later. It’s a weird way to do it but I just think it works.

There are a lot of allusions in your songs. How do you figure out how to drop them in?

BF: They just kinda come out.  You know, whatever I was thinking about at the time or if it has the same feeling as the song I’m singing.  If I get the same feeling from a different song I’ll just drop it in there.  It’s also a way of paying a small tribute to people I grew up listening to.

Do you think the fans pick up on it?

BF: Sometimes. I think they get real excited when they do find out because it’s like “I know what that is!”  A lot of people don’t know what they are though.

Well the Elvis line from “High Lonesome” is very subtle.

BF: Yeah it is.  Very subtle.

Do you think it inspires the kids to go out of their comfort zone and discover something new, like say a Bob Seger record?

BF: That’s the idea behind it.  There are kids that probably think Bob Seger is someone that their parents listen to.  If they go and buy Night Moves or even just gets the single from iTunes they will think “Wow, that’s a really cool song.”

A lot of your songs use ‘50s imagery.  Why is that decade so appealing to you?

BF: I don’t know. It’s just the one I set my eyes on. It has a lot of style and a lot of character.

So you are a big Elvis fan?

BF: Oh yeah. Big time.  I love Elvis Presley.

You guys are from Jersey and Jersey plays a huge part in your music.  How do you feel about Jersey? A recurring theme of your songs is the desire to break free.

BF: I don’t think it’s necessarily New Jersey that people want to get away from; it’s more the trappings you can fall into.  There’s not a lot you can do career-wise, but once you get a career outside of those boundaries and borders, you want to come home to it because that’s where you’re from. It’s a double-edged sword.  It’s weird because you want to get out, but at the same time you are trying to find your way back. It’s not exactly quiet, it’s just home, you know?

Who are your influences?

BF: Tom Waits is a huge influence.  Joe Strummer is a huge influence.  The Who, stuff like that.  A lot of the old classics.  Sam Cooke is also a major influence.

I’ve noticed that the sound has changed slightly.  The first record is more traditional punk, but the ’59 Sound has a softer, janglier feel.  How did your sound evolve?

BF: Just by finding those old soul records and realizing that we all liked the same thing. It was like “Hey, let’s add this in to what we’re doing.” It was also a desire to grow.

Do you guys get in a room and jam until you come up with something?

BF: No, we usually talk about it and we come in with ideas and see what happens.

And you guys are writing right now?

BF: Yup.

Is it easy to write on the road?

BF: Yeah, it’s not too hard. You can find a place to go anywhere.

Are you surprised by all the attention The ’59 Sound has received?

BF: I was just surprised how fast.  When we were done with it, I thought it was a good record and I thought it deserved a lot of attention.  For the first time I was like “This is the record that I’m proud of and it should get a lot of attention.” But I didn’t think it would really get it, so it was really interesting to get it and it was kind of surprising how fast it was.

So when did you start to notice that it was getting big?

BF: I think after the Rise Against tour we did.  We were like “Wow, this is really getting somewhere.”

That was last summer right?

BF: Yeah, it ended in October.

Who would be your dream to tour with?

BF: Living or dead?

Let’s start with the dead.

BF: Definitely The Clash.  Living, I’d like to tour with Tom Waits.  I don’t think I’d be able to get enough if I could tour with Tom Waits.

He doesn’t tour very often. Have you seen him live?

Nope. It’s so hard to get tickets.

What is it about him?

BF: He’s like nobody else you know?  He reinvents himself constantly and I think that’s the coolest thing to be able to do.  He just has his own style, he’s just really cool.

So do you like writing story songs then?

BF: Yeah. But all of them actually happened.  It’s almost like a documentary put in a romantic filter.

So the songs are based on events that actually happened to you?  It’s not like Springsteen, where you are playing a character?

BF: No. I actually could never understand how he did that and that is a question I have for him.  How do you write about stuff that didn’t happen to you?  And I mean I get how he does it, but I don’t think I would ever want to do that, you know? He says you have to get involved in the character to be able to understand, but I don’t know.  For me it’s more like there are so many things and so many people that I know that I could write stories about, I just write about them, or what my relationship to them is.

So you think it’s more resonant?

BF: For me. I think its two different styles.  I think Bob Dylan does that a lot too, where he’ll write about people he hasn’t met and things he hasn’t done, but I think that’s one thing about Bruce that allows him to be super personal and relatable.  Whereas most people that know me would say that I’m a little bit awkward with people and I don’t hang out.  I don’t go to parties when I’m home.  I hang out with maybe five or six people and that’s it, because social interaction makes me feel weird, you know?  People like Bruce can go out there and just be part of it and they see the world as part of their world.  I see the world as something that I look at.  I don’t feel a part of it, which is weird.  That’s why I feel like I have to write from my perspective.

So it’s kind of a mixture of the two then, because Dylan is all about mystique.  I mean, he’s a character himself.

BF: Right. Exactly.

So I’m talking to Brian right now, but….you know what I mean?

BF: Yeah I do.  But I see myself as an accidental character. I didn’t intend to be the way Bob Dylan is, where he invents it himself. I would rather be the way that Bruce is where you can just go up to anyone and talk to them. I’ve found myself trapped in the feeling that even though I can go up and talk to a person, I don’t feel like I’m a part of this whole thing, like the world is something that doesn’t understand me and it’s something I don’t get.  I think there are a lot of other people that feel that way, which is why I think they connect to my type of songwriting.  At the same time, it’s hard for me to connect to those people.  They come up to me and are like, “I totally understand where you are coming from.”  I’m like “I believe that you understand, but I’m still uncomfortable in this conversation.”

Yeah, I get that because when I heard “High Lonesome” for the first time, I totally understood where you were coming from.

BF: Yeah, and I get it.  It’s just like high school, you know? I really feel that high school is a microcosm of reality, where you always feel a little left out, a little misunderstood.  I’ve always felt that way and maybe it’s because I had a weird upbringing.  It was just me and my mom and my dad split before I was born, so I never met him.  So something’s not right, something’s been rejected, something’s been left behind and I’ve always felt that I’ve been left with the pieces and all the questions.  It’s like what do I do with all the pieces that I’m trying to put together and fit into society and feel part of it? I can’t, because there are so many pieces lying around.

So your songwriting is a way for you to feel part of it?

BF: Exactly, and it’s a way of letting other people know if we’re having a conversation about it, I might not be able to relate, but I understand.  Maybe under completely different circumstances, the abandonment, the lost feeling, but at the same time I hope to fit in.  My whole goal is to let people know that those nights when you are sitting in your room and you have no idea what’s going on, you are not the only one. There is someone else that feels the way you do.  And if there’s me, and there’s them, there are probably millions of people that feel the same way, and maybe that’s the connection.

When you play shows, is that when you feel truly connected?

BF: Yeah. I feel like the kids understand, and that’s the one time I feel understood.  That’s cool.

So you didn’t set out to create a character or a mystique, but you did inadvertently?

BF: Right. I kinda fell into it.

So is that better?

BF: Right now I’m left with a decision.  Am I going to push myself through this and be a common person that can talk to everybody, or do I invent this character to protect myself, like Dylan did, or like Tom Waits did.  Or do I be a total weirdo like Van Morrison?  I don’t know if this is true or not, but I read this thing about Van Morrison that in his songs he can relate to everybody, but in real life he’s a total maniac. So I don’t know.

Well there are pros and cons to both approaches.  If you meet an artist and they are totally normal, the mystique goes away.

BF: (laughs) Right! (adopts a disappointed tone) They are totally normal.

But if you have too much mystique you become inaccessible.

BF: Exactly. I’m trying to force myself into being a more Joe Strummer-like person, where it’s like we don’t need to be best friends, but I can hang out and connect with anybody.  If you just let your whatever down and some kid is like “Let’s go get coffee.” It’s like “All right, why not?” What do I have to lose?  Even if we spend an hour together and I don’t like you or I think you’re a weirdo and you think I’m a weirdo, what did we lose? Nothing.  Joe Strummer was a character and he didn’t even have to invent it.  He just was one, and I’m OK with that.  If I have to be a little bit of a weirdo, I want to be accessible.  Are you charging me for this psychology session? (laughs)

No way.  You are giving me a great interview, especially since I’m just a guy with a blog.

BF: Well I was just a guy with a guitar, and if you weren’t here, I’d still be a guy with a guitar.

Well it means a lot. Thanks.

BF: It’s the truth.  That I learned from Joe Strummer.

It must mean a lot to the kids.  For instance, when I was a teenager I waited for hours by Sebastian Bach’s bus.

BF: From Skid Row?  Awesome. I loved him.

Yeah, and when he finally came out, he gave me a huge bear hug.  I’ve never forgotten it.

BF: See, and I think that’s awesome.  You know, when people want to meet a band, they want something.  Henry Rollins was joking one time about a kid who wanted to come up to him but was looking for his moment. Like “Here’s my moment with Henry Rollins,” and he was kind of making fun of him.  I took it as “Wait dude, that kid is sixteen years old.  That is that kid’s moment.  He’s been waiting to talk to you all week.”  For me, it’s five minutes out of my day, so what if I was just like, “Hey dude, what do you want to talk about?”  I’ll talk about whatever you want, and when the conversation is done I’ll leave.  If I can give them that, then I’ve done better than people did for me.  When I was a kid I felt like nobody had time for me, so I want to have time for everybody.

And for those kids, music is their life.  So when a band says hello it means the world.  But you can become jaded easily.  Have you become jaded by fans coming up to you?

BF: It depends on what day you catch me on.  I have good days and bad just like anyone else.  I’d like to tell you that I’m a superhero and don’t ever get in a bad mood and I’m nice to every kid, but there are times when I definitely fall.  If a kid catches me and stops me in my tracks, I’m never rude to them, but there are definitely times where I’ll try to get out as fast as I can.  My fear is that someone catches me on a bad day and I’m just like “Dude! Leave me alone!” I never want to do that because that is that kid’s moment that he remembers forever.

And then that kid goes on a message board.

BF: I don’t care about that.  You can say whatever you want about me on a message board, I don’t really care.  I care more about that person and his feelings.  He’ll walk away like “Oh my god, Brian just blew me off.”  That’s horrible, because he’ll remember that forever.  That’s why I don’t ever want to be the guy that causes that.

That’s a bad, bad feeling.

BF: Yeah.  I feel like it’s my responsibility since I have guitar on and I’m onstage.  So it’s my fault if somebody likes me, so it’s my responsibility to make sure I’m gracious to these people, because if they weren’t there, I wouldn’t be there. From the start, I’m the one who put the guitar on, so I asked for it. If I put the guitar on and write songs, and release records, I want people to hear it.  If people are responding to it, then I’m obligated to talk to them.

So you got what you asked for.

BF: Exactly. That’s why I don’t understand those bands that are like “I don’t have time for anybody.”  You asked for it by being in a band, that’s your face on the poster.  You can’t be like that.

Do you think that some fans get caught up in the whole superficial celebrity aspect of the band?

BF: Some do.  The one thing that really pisses me off is when girls come up and they are like “Sign my boobs!” Literally every single time I’ve said “You go home, you get some self respect, and then we’ll have a real conversation.” Then I leave, because I’m not going to be that guy.  Even if I wasn’t married, it’s just not right.  I’m nobody that you should be hailing, you know what I mean?  It’s just a talent I was born with, that I can take no credit for.  I never learned how to write songs, it was just given to me.  I think that it’s a God-given thing.  I’m not going to sit here and take credit for something I didn’t do.  The songwriting is something that could be taken away from me tomorrow, I don’t know.  Tomorrow I could forget how to do it and end up working in a factory.

Well you guys aren’t that kind of band anyway.  I mean, that’s one of the things I admire about the band.  I knew you weren’t bullshitting me.  Going back to “High Lonesome,” I know I’ve felt that way, wishing I was that attractive or charismatic.  Do you find it’s hard to turn that charisma on?

BF: Yes. For some people it’s hard to on off, for me it’s hard to turn it on, because I don’t feel that way all the time. As soon as I go up there, I’m scared to death.

So do you have a ritual or anything?

BF: Nope.  I just wing it. If you ever ask our guitar tech, he’ll tell you.  Every single show I’m nervous and then I just say “All right!” and go!  Sometimes I’ll be in the middle of a conversation with him, and I’ll just go. I feel like if I don’t barrel into it head on, I’ll forget how to do it.  Some shows are bad.  But I’m honest with people.  There was one show in Sacramento where I was having the worst night and I apologized to the crowd.  That’s the truth.

Well it’s hard to do every night, especially since your choruses are so huge.

BF: Yeah, especially when you don’t get enough sleep. I gotta take a lot of vitamins.